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Sour Dough Starters and Wild Yeasts
Thu 27-Oct-11
9:46 am
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paperman
Saxmundham, Suffolk

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Hi Azelia, great to have you onboard. Following your advice on your web site I did a straight swap of honey for malt extract i.e. 1 tbsp and the results are very good and have given the bread just a touch more 'depth of flavour' not sure how else to put it. Actually I left the yeast/water/malt extract to make friends for about 45 mins before I started so didn't notice any real difference in the way the bread worked.

Now I am following my 'no salt' crusade (forgive the word) and am going to have a go at your Italian recommendation Hattie, let you know.

Oh and bread generally, I usually reduce the quantities of flour so that I can add 10% of rye flour just to give it a bit extra, obviously you need to like rye to find that an advantage!!

I have reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me...

Thu 27-Oct-11
6:38 pm
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JoannaS
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I am now intrigued with your blog and making bread from ancient grains. Must find out where to get seed from for these kinds of things

Tue 1-Nov-11
1:49 pm
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paperman
Saxmundham, Suffolk

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Hattie: I finally found a Paul Hollywood recipe for Pane 'Tuscana' although more usually 'Tuscano' as you know. It took an age, 9 hours overnight for the 1st rise, a further hour after some more work this morning and finally another hour on the baking tray before it goes in the oven, phew - was it worth it ? Well, yes I think it was/is. Hollywood says the lack of salt is compensated for by the dough fermenting - maybe, I prefer my more usual recipes, with salt, but this makes a thoroughly acceptable change which for me will work well with salamis, cheese and olives but for my friend who asked in the first instance I hope will make an acceptable bread - I think it will. I have to confess to having been sufficiently worried about the possible lack of 'taste' that I also dusted the loaves in Rye flour before they went in the oven.

So, now all my earlier questions are answered, have switched to malt extract in place of honey or sugar am pleased with result and now the salt issue.

Incidentally I experimented using single cream in place of oil or butter in the dough in some bread I made last week and that too has worked really well.

I have reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me...

Tue 1-Nov-11
1:57 pm
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Aly
Normandy France

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I find it frustrating too as it is difficult to find these ancient flours here.aargh I know Doves farm do some and deliver abroad but the delivery cost is ridiculousdoh

Trying to enjoy life as it is

http://www.letertregites.com

Tue 1-Nov-11
2:19 pm
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Hattie
Bucks/Oxon Border

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Hi Chris, 

You have been a very busy baker boy....congratulations. I wish I was there to taste it all.  smile

 

Just in passing you might be interested in this recipe for a sour-dough rye loaf.

 

http://www.gingerbreadgirl.name/2010/04/12/rye-sou.....our-bread/

 

"The beautiful is as useful as the useful...perhaps more so."

from Les Miserables

Tue 1-Nov-11
2:46 pm
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paperman
Saxmundham, Suffolk

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Hi Hattie: Many thanks, I have to confess I have not 'strayed' into sourdough at all YET!!

I have been using Rye and Spelt flours for some time,  though in fact as I have already said elsewhere whatever I am making (except Pane Toscana!) I usually include 10% of rye flour, for the taste.

I have used Spelt Flour but if I am using it I usually do so in a 45/45% mix with strong white flour + 10% rye. I don't know what I was expecting from spelt flour, maybe a couple of gladiators!! but my results have been good with it, but apart from the historical connection so far it misses me a bit and I find it a bit of an anti-climax.

There seems so much in this bread and baking area that is 'fun' and a bit like when I used to develop and print my pictures/films in my darkroom you can never be absolutely certain what you are going to get until it is too late, and it is too late then!!  

I have reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me...

Tue 1-Nov-11
3:29 pm
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Hattie
Bucks/Oxon Border

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wave  I agree with your last paragraph, Chris....in fact I discovered some very odd things when I had my restaurant. I taught everyone who worked there to make our bread as we were always having to make batches of it. Even the youngest learnt & did very well. But we discovered that our moods & general health affected the yeast & therefore the rise of the loaves. If anyone was out of sorts, in a bad temper, or stressed you could tell & so could they. It was like some magical indicator.....quite spooky. Keep an eye on your bread-making experiments & see if you notice anything.    magic  devil  magic  big_laugh 

 

"The beautiful is as useful as the useful...perhaps more so."

from Les Miserables

Tue 1-Nov-11
7:47 pm
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Toffeeapple
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I've noticed that same thing about cooking in general Hattie, for myself of course, things turn out badly if I am not in the right frame of mind.

Chris, you have been such a stoic about finding recipes and working on them, I applaud you.

Now, send me some bread please!  big_laugh

I'll try that again!

Tue 1-Nov-11
8:13 pm
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paperman
Saxmundham, Suffolk

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TA, when you go to Aldeburgh for fish and chips I'll bring the bread & butter so we can have some chip butties!!

 

But thanks for the comment, it is really enjoyable and I keep getting good advice here to help.

 

Did you have a good day at Worcester ?

I have reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me...

Tue 1-Nov-11
8:25 pm
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Toffeeapple
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Ooh yes please!  I can think of nothing better. 

Worcester was lovely.  We drove to Bicester station and parked then took a train to Oxford then changed for the journey to Worcester.  The sun shone, the train fairly scampered along the track and we arrived by 1.00 - lunchtime!  OH had researched and we took a very short walk to 'Little Venice', not surprisingly an Italian restaurant.  OH had a huge Lasagne and I had a starter sized Risotto of Gamberi (prawns) and Salami (peperoni) which had slivers of Parmiggiano on the top.  It was so delicious!  OH had Peroni beer and I had white wine - Orvietto which went very well with the prawns.  We got back a 6.00pm.

I'll try that again!

Tue 1-Nov-11
8:42 pm
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paperman
Saxmundham, Suffolk

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Sounds like a full and lovely day, I lived in Shropshire for a while and used to go to evening race meetings at Worcester and during the season I could be found watching the cricket. Worcester has one of the loveliest cricket grounds and of course it is a really pleasant town (I know it is technically a city but it has a lovely 'old town' feel to it).

Glad you had such a good day. 

I have reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me...

Wed 2-Nov-11
9:40 am
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Toffeeapple
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That all sounds wonderful, horse-racing and cricket.  Worcester does, as you say, have an old town feel.

I'll try that again!

Sun 18-Dec-11
9:00 am
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Hattie
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paperman said:

Hi Hattie: Many thanks, I have to confess I have not 'strayed' into sourdough at all YET!!

I have been using Rye and Spelt flours for some time,  though in fact as I have already said elsewhere whatever I am making (except Pane Toscana!) I usually include 10% of rye flour, for the taste.

I have used Spelt Flour but if I am using it I usually do so in a 45/45% mix with strong white flour + 10% rye. I don't know what I was expecting from spelt flour, maybe a couple of gladiators!! but my results have been good with it, but apart from the historical connection so far it misses me a bit and I find it a bit of an anti-climax.

There seems so much in this bread and baking area that is 'fun' and a bit like when I used to develop and print my pictures/films in my darkroom you can never be absolutely certain what you are going to get until it is too late, and it is too late then!!  

wave Chris, this morning I received an email from my foodie friend who lives near Seattle, she included the following link to a wonderful bread site which she uses a lot.

http://www.breadtopia.com/

 

"The beautiful is as useful as the useful...perhaps more so."

from Les Miserables

Mon 19-Dec-11
9:29 pm
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Terrier
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ooh , might have to have a browse of that when I've got a bit of time, really enjoyed my sour dough loaf I made a while ago and love my breadmaker, so always happy to be experimenting with some new ideas

Tue 20-Dec-11
6:52 am
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Hattie
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I have got some sourdough starter drying at the moment. I just had to experiment with this method of saving it. I say had to because the two jars of starter both fermented so vigorously they overflowed; luckily I had the forethought to have stood the pots in large in large shallow dishes......eeek.....otherwise it would have been a spectacular mess. Obviously now I know my starters are ready for baking.......big_laughbig_laugh 

I had thought that I would have to wait a few more days but the addition of the dark ale really hastened the process.

 

***If the drying method works for me I will be able to send out 'care-packages' of starter to anyone who wants to try it. I will have to test it first though...... whistle

I will also freeze some & bring it back to life.

Oh, this is such a lot of fun.  laugh

 

"The beautiful is as useful as the useful...perhaps more so."

from Les Miserables

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