Thanks to you both for your prompt replies.Our site does not relate to our smallholding but to the holiday homes we renovated and led to us retiring permanently here and finding our little paradise.

As we are growing alot of fruit and vegetables goats would be a problemat the moment. Every villager has goats but they all seem to ignore these thistles...they are huge...at least a metre across the rosette.I shall certainly try leaving them a while but I am getting paranoid about missing one and then it seeds and starts the next onslaught.

I would love to find pygmy goats in Turkey but they seem to like everything large. I wanted dexters and some bantams but have failed locally so far.I will have goats once the veggie plot is isolated as I want to make cheese.

Our cottages are 5 kms from the south coast near Fethiye but the house is an hour up into the mountains towards Denizli in the Nif valley, miles from nowhere! It is a farming valley,they still plough with a mule, hence they are set in their traditional ways. Alot of the traditions are organic but the have learnt that chemicals will produce bumper crops and so they mix the two.....maybe they are right on some issues?

As the land has been untouched for 5 years I am keen to maintain an organic sheme but am struggling.We have supplies of Neem oil but I have not applied it at the right times, hopefully next season I can get it right.This year has been devoted to moving in and settling.

Whereabouts in North Bucks are you? I come from Amersham originally.

Mmmm..I like the sound of those alternatives.Do you have the recipes or a link so that I can get myself prepared in advance of the harvest which should be in 2 weeks. I guess the liquers are just a case of steeping them and being patient (not one of my strong points) but the wine would need a bit of forethought.

There are lots of lovely shops in the Old town, rather like Stony Stratford. We go there for outdoor gear when we are home.

Am I being dim about the maths at the end to post reply, is it a computer thing or just a test to see if it's time for a drink.

Thanks for the links...I will try the vinegar...I hope the lambs do not eat the grass around as they are marinading themselves with wild sage and oregano at the minute and vinegar may spoil the mix !!